Joel Harden's next move
He says there's a "storm" coming — and it's driving his jump into the federal arena
THE LEDE
Q+A — Joel Harden says there’s a “storm” coming — and it’s driving his next move.
With federal Tories riding high in public opinion, the veteran legislator, who once mulled over a run for provincial leader, has been greenlit to make a bid for the federal NDP nomination in Ottawa Centre. For Harden, he’s making the jump up for the same reason he jumped into the provincial arena six years prior.
“I heard the same things when I was running in provincial politics; people were afraid of the Ford government and that the world would end if Doug Ford was elected,” he said on a call. “My attitude to them is ‘don’t be afraid.’ Let’s stand up and do what we need to do to keep the services that we have, to expand and protect them.”
But partisanship aside, the atypical, rebellious politician — a prolific social media user with his own share of past controversy — is looking to lower the temperature. Ask him about how he’ll do it, Harden will tell you about his relationship with the late Daryl Kramp. “He’s exactly the kind of conservative I’m excited to work with, anywhere,” he said. “He’s a guy who cared and I saw it. He’s a good man.”
With his federal bid set in motion, we caught up to chat about why he’s making the move, Stiles’ leadership, the path to provincial success, a possible challenger in Mark Carney and what he’ll miss — or won’t — about Queen’s Park.
Here are the highlights of our conversation:
Why are you making this jump?
“I’m really concerned about the direction of politics, particularly at the federal level — the toxicity of the discourse and how it’s turning people off. I think we’re living in a moment where we have to get people reengaged to meet some of the big challenges we face. I’ve been honored to serve in this role for six years and have made friendships that I think will last a lifetime with community groups that are doing incredible work that inspire me. I want to take the positivity of all of those relationships — and the organizing model we’ve been building here in Ottawa Centre — and bring it to federal politics because I would rather think about politics as a space where we can inspire people for good rather than either tune out or use it as a place to rage farm. And I think both of these things are very concerning.”
You speak of the “model” you’ve built in Ottawa. What does that look like?
“Well, let me make it clear. It’s not just about me. I’m working with dozens of very, very motivated community organizers who I’ve relied on to get elected twice. This tradition goes well before me and our particular group through the Paul Dewar years, the Ed Broadbent years. All of these politicians didn’t get elected as a way to promote themselves. They got elected to increase the profile and the visibility, and most importantly, the funding of community organizations that have many of the solutions we’re looking for to the problems we’re facing. And I could keep you on the phone for the entire afternoon about the incredible work that’s being done here in Ottawa. But all of it shares the same story. It’s being done on a shoestring. People are basically begging for any funds that they could find. When I tell the stories of these groups at Queen’s Park, people find it inspiring. I find it inspiring. I’ve had colleagues from across the aisle say that stories that I’ve been blessed to share have inspired them — and in some cases, I have been able to get some funding for them. I think that’s what the federal scene needs. All I see is people beating the snot out of each other in Question Period, saying ridiculous things. I don’t think that’s what we have a democracy for. I’m excited to be getting into that space to bring some hope, bring some optimism and bring some community organizing.”
On your website, you refer to a “storm” that’s on the way. Tell me more.
“Mr. [Pierre] Poilievre. I’ve talked to a number of neighbors here that are really afraid of the prospect of a Poilievre government. My attitude to them is ‘don’t be afraid.’ Let’s stand up and fight for our community. Let’s stand up and do what we need to do to keep the services that we have, to expand and protect them. I heard the same things when I was running in provincial politics; people were afraid of the Ford government and that the world would end if Doug Ford was elected. My first pitch was ‘that’s why we needed an NDP government.’ And if that didn't connect with people, I said, ‘look, regardless of who ends up running Queen’s Park, we have to make sure that the community organizations that make life happen in this community are supported, and they get the funding and the publicity they deserve.’ And that’s what I will do. That’s what our team will do.
Go on.
“I think we’ve earned a reputation of putting the community before our own political party and our political aspirations, prioritizing what the community is looking for out of politics. In my experience, that has inspired people to want to engage with politics. My fear is, if I have a fear, it’s that I think some people in our democracy like it when voters tune out because it makes their angry core of supporters that much more powerful. That’s the Trump recipe. I hope it’s not but it would appear to be the Poilievre recipe. I have a different belief — the more people start caring about our community, the more people start understanding and seeing and valuing the important work going on in our community, the more hopeful we’re going to be and the more effective we’re going to be.”
Many liken the federal Liberals’ current state with that of Kathleen Wynne’s last stretch in power. Do you see an opportunity for Team Singh to capitalize on this, similar to how the provincial party did?
“We’ll see. I mean, is the way our political system works. There’s a progressive majority of voters in this country — and there’s always a progressive primary in every election where voters have to decide who they get behind. So what you’re describing could very well happen, like what happened to my friend Jack Layton — the province of Quebec swung almost in a monolith. They saw something in Jack that I knew about him for a long time. He cared and he wanted our country to be better. He felt it could be better. I believe in Marit Stiles, too. I’ve known Marit for a while. We started in politics at the same time. I think she could be the best premier Ontario has ever had. She cares that much. I am very excited to work my tail off to get an NDP government in Ontario.”
Do you think the deal with the Trudeau government hurt the NDP?
“I don’t think so. I will acknowledge in being honest with you, certainly, I think, largely, because of people like Mr. Poilievre and their misinformation campaign about a ‘coalition,’ some neighbors tune in to that negative message. But what I think a lot of people find refreshing is the spectacle of politicians actually cooperating and working together. It’s a rare thing in our system. Quite frankly, I liked the fact that Jagmeet and that team decided to use their power to get dental care for kids, to get universal contraception medications, universal diabetes medications, to push them on the CERB, to push for a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel. I think these things are really positive.
I guess what Mr. Poilievre is saying that we just have to yell into the void the entire time when we are in opposition. That has not been my experience. I’ve made friendships with people in the Ford government. My favourite speech I ever gave was memorializing the former chair of the Conservative caucus, Daryl Kramp. He was a wonderful human being. We connected on a lot of things. He paid attention to some of the stuff we were promoting and put a good word with the Premier for us. And he was a friend. Even though a conservative and I am likely to fight on 90 per cent of the things, I would like to see more work on that 10 per cent because that 10 per cent really does matter.”
You spoke a bit about Marit Stiles. You’d publicly mused about a provincial leadership bid but ultimately decided against it. How much did the provincial scene — and how you think Stiles will fair in the next election, whenever it is — weigh on your decision to exit?
“I’ve been talking about this with Marit for months. I think the turning point for me — if my partner were on this call with us, she would say Joel really started turning his attention to this at Ed Broadbent’s funeral. We all went and started to remember his life and some of what he accomplished despite never being Prime Minister, despite never being in government. Then, we said to ourselves ‘well, look, we’ve been building up this organizing machine — a lot of this we inherited from the good work done by previous people. We think we have a shot at the federal seat.’ It’s not going to be easy. I’m not going to lead you to believe that. I don't think that at all. I think we’re going to have to work really hard for it. But I think people are ready for a hopeful message that isn’t just saccharin. That’s real. That will point to concrete things we can do to make our community better. I know Marit believes in that too. I believe in Marit. She’s an incredible leader — I can’t wait for more people to get to know her.”
So the seat will stay orange provincially?
“I can’t talk to you about precisely who but I’ve had a lot of people approach me, who I consider to be incredible candidates — and Marit is meeting with those people too. We’re going to be very ready for a fall or spring election, if that’s what Mr. Ford wants, with a great candidate provincially. I’m not worried about losing the seat provincially. What I’m most worried about is making sure we can meet the moment because, like a lot of neighbors who can see a storm coming, I see it too. But I think we can get in front of it and we can weather it.”
Prime Minister Trudeau is working to woo Mark Carney into joining his government. He had reportedly considered running for this seat in the last federal election. Are you up for a run against Mr. Carney?
“I don’t want to go past my station. But if I’m allowed to be the nominee, and if Mr. Carney were to run the election, I would love to have a debate because of Mr. Carney’s solutions to environmentalism, being led by some of the multinational property companies — I can’t wait for that debate! That’s a great debate! It’ll be civil. But I frankly don’t think global companies have a lot to offer by way of tangible environmental solutions. I do know a lot of local organizations here that have a lot to offer. But I also want to say that he’s done a lot for the country. He’s an impressive person and it would be an honour to debate him and to campaign in a race in which he was the candidate. The Liberals have a lot of good people to choose from. Yasir [Naqvi] is also a very talented, very committed person. So we’ll see when we get there. But what I am seeing, quite frankly, in their party, is a guy who’s clinging to power, not realizing that he’s lost the room. That’s the kind of arrogance that’s coming across.”
What’s one thing you’ll miss around here? One thing you won’t miss?
[Laughs]. “It was the first place I was ever arrested for civil disobedience. I’m the first person in my family to ever go to an extended post secondary training so I had a lot of pressure on me. When I went down to do my MA at York University, Mike Harris cut social assistance by almost 22 two per cent. When I was young, our family was on social assistance for three years — and we were lucky because the rates were better back then. I do remember things being tight. When that happened, I couldn’t concentrate on my studies. I told a couple of classmates that ‘I think I’m just gonna go down to Question Period and yell at the Premier.’ And so I did that. And then a guard very nicely escorted me out and brought me to some basement. When I came out — I didn’t know I had to do this — I was talking to folks in the media. But it wasn’t my plan. I was just a kid who grew up on social assistance for a few years. I was furious, furious. The irony is I came back to Queen’s Park when I got elected and I met with a guard who was there. That’s one of the things I will miss. I look at it as kind of one of the beginning parts of my political journey. And it’s always going to be in my heart. I can tell you I have friends from all caucuses in that building of staff or people in the cafeteria. Many many many great positive memories.
What I will not miss is when the partisanship gets ratcheted up to a level that’s just hard to withstand. I’ve never really been much of a partisan. I don’t think the sun rises and sets on the NDP — I want the best political ideas to be successful. I just happen to think many of them are New Democratic ideas but I’m not crazy about out-of-control partisanship. And I have seen my fair share of that at Queen’s Park. But guess what! If I’m allowed to go to the House of Common, I’ll probably get a heavy dose of it there too.”
A federal leadership run, one day?
“I take it as a compliment that you’re asking me that. Other people have asked me that. I’m just focused on the hurdle in front of me. I can tell you that when I first wanted to run provincially, that nomination was won by eight votes on the third ballot. It was close, it was close. So I don’t take anything for granted. I think that for all of us, in whatever we do, we have to prove our worth to ourselves and to the people we represent every single day. That’s what I’m focused on.”
This Q+A was edited for length and clarity.
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